ladies.

How do I pull?

1) exudes good physical and mental health (trim, tall, muscular, smiling, active), and

2) has attained a substabtial degree of wealth and financial resources (dresses well, has a car and home, visibly spends money), and

3) pays flattering and exclusive attention to the woman in question, including sincere protestations of devotion (tells her how attracted he is to her, how much he loves her and her only), and

4) claims to share basic values, aims and life goals with the woman in question.

Given a good simulation of these qualities and you can get almost any woman into bed.

His best bet is to be an asshole and to learn guitar. Being an asshole will get you chicks like you wouldn't believe, especially if you are a marginally witty asshole and can make them laugh. I can't really tell you exactly what it takes to be a real asshole bcz if I knew I'd be getting laid repeatedly and not posting to mentalist chatrooms, obv. The part about knowing how to play guitar is only necessary if and when you decide to settle down with a lady. There is nothing that says 'marriage material' to a woman like an asshole who can play guitar.

(I know of DC college girls who go to the tomb of the unknown soldier changing of the guard ceremonies repeatedly to check out the stud parade)

(look who's talking)

I also have lists of favourites, and it's all in a database! Even better!

Oh, and a fantastic dronerock record collection and treats me like shit. Forgot about that! Yeah. If I were more representative of the entirety of femalehood the world would be in trouble. But more guys would get laid. Sigh.

As to the get her in a long term relationship thing, yeah, treat her like shit and make her feel like there is something wrong with her.

This is the way that the world works...

:-(

This is OTM and painfully familiar.

I really am going to write that article now. Really.

I met her through Latin dancing, something I consciously got involved with largely in order to meet people, but with a very long-term perspective about it. Anyway, I fell in love with the dancing itself almost immediately, so all along it's been hard to say to what extent it is a means and to what extent it is an end in itself.

haha dave q never complains about anything!

dave q needs his mommy! :-)

(insert random phoned-in takes about how "women are crazy," "'the real word' doesn't work that way despite my experience to the contrary before I started playing guitar damn it," etc)

yeah this thread has had a lot of silly contributions when a lot of ppl (ie me) need some advice on this stuff.

Being honest, being myself, being what-many-women-describe as "funny" and "charming", being a musician, being tall & dark, being confident-but-not-arrogant, being in good physical and mental health, none of this really means shit to any women, otherwise I wouldn't be absurdly lady-less in life and lonely and longing.

I'm with Millar's post upthread, especially the part about being an asshole; this would describe why girls who do deem me worthy end up cheating on me and eventually breaking up with me to be with guys who hit them and yell at them and ignore them.

And don't believe the hype about women liking men-good-with-children. The moment any potential lady-friend finds out I'm a single-father is 99.9% of the time the moment they deem me unworthy. Sometimes I could just yell "BLARGH!" at the whole thing.

And yet, without that female connection, the nickalicious' life doesn't feel entirely whole. BUMMAH!!!!

I think a want a t shirt saying "International Chick Federation".

x: "be considerate, be warm, be honest, be yourself."
y: "i've tried that - it doesn't work."
x: "erm...'tried'? 'work'?"

yeah but...none of this really means shit to any women...if you're predisposed to thinking in generalizations like this, people (men and women) can smell it, and they don't like it. It's a massive turnoff.

I don't know, I mean I can only speak from my own experience, right, and I don't mean to minimize the considerable pain that so many people experience when they go out on a limb & express their liking for someone else only to end up hurt, but it does seem like as soon as you start speaking in "women want this" or "men are like this" generalities, you are completely doomed. If you want to find joy, you have to enter into ever relation in total earnest, otherwise you'll only get what you give: cynicism. Believing that people are only interacting with you because of the relative strength of the game you're running sets a self-fulfilling prophecy in motion. I'm not saying that being completely honest & open doesn't open you up to plenty of rejection and therefore pain, but it's the only way you can find a rewarding relationship. Talking a good line only finds you people who are themselves talking good lines.

Kate I like you so much & I'm sorry to hear that things have been a drag for you :(

v. well said

Honestly, the generalizations in my post are more like venting frustration and exorcising bad-vibes, I honestly don't believe that either (hence my follow-up "above-post-doesn't-mean-diddly" post). I actually totally agree with JD about that "people smell generalizations" thing. I'm just frustrated with so many recent failed attempts to *ahem* "hook up"; many of which have been thwarted by my adversity to the above-mentioned "Game".

I just want to say (in my best So-Cal stoner-surfer voice) I love you guys & grrls.

I've been rejected plenty using that approach myself, but still find it worthwhile. Games are dud. I'd rather be alone than confused and uncertain in a relationship.

My problem again and again is that Most Men react as if they are dealing with Most Women. And I'm not Most Women. And I'm never going to attract/be attractive to Most Men.

But! Soundlab Artboy just emailed me to invite me to tea! Weeeeex!

kate you're making the mistake of assuming that you have the right to extrapolate your personal experiences into generalizations

*IF* I am guilty of this, then SO IS JOHN!!! That is my point!

Is Martin talking about records or ladies here?

just because it also happens to be john's personal experience does not disqualify it from being good advice, nor does it discredit him from administering it

if you want to retain to the right to say "it has not worked for me, therefore it doesn't work" then you're probably not actually looking for advice anyway

of the two conflicting viewpoints derived from personal experience, which sounds more reasonable to you as advice administered on a grand scale (bearing in mind that "good advice" is just that, advice, and never a guaranteed or foolproof route to anything):

1. be honest, be genuine, be yourself
2. "You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't"

how do other people see you? would you like you?

I think other people see me as rather dull and irritating. I don't know if that's true, it's just my impression. I'm not sure if I'd like me or not.

I don't know. I have never asked them (be it a friend, the family would always say good things but it doesn't count)

''would you like you?''

I don't know that, either.

I don't what ppl 'might like'. I don't want to fake anything.

god its so fucking depressing...I hope you're joking gareth.

god its so fucking depressing...I hope you're joking gareth.

actually i meant in any interpersonal relationship. and i wasnt joking no, i was asking a question rather than stating anything though. if you are not someone that people like, how do you become so? is modifying your behaviour changing your essence? or is the notion of self less static and fixed than that? perhaps some personalities are amorphous and more interpersonal, while others remain static and unchanging whatever the context?

perhaps it is a question of how you view the self?

the most popular people are natural, relaxed, they share attention, ask questions, listen. but what if this isnt you? can you become these things? and if you do, are you faking it? if you are the opposite of these things is it better to stay as you are?

these are not answers, they are questions. it depends on you i guess

so, it is easy to say, be yourself. i do this, i find it best all round, but what if you dont like 'yourself', or what if 'yourself' doesnt go over well? not sure, i think over time i got more confidence to be myself, just relaxed more and things just became easier. confidence, or more accurately, comfortability with self, they put people at ease.

and also. LISTEN! listen to them! interpersonal relationships are about TWO people not just you! so many of the peoples responses on this thread are about themselves, what about the other person? make space for them!

but i will tell you one thing that people like. use the name julio, use the name;)

hehehe...

''or what if 'yourself' doesnt go over well? not sure, i think over time i got more confidence to be myself, just relaxed more and things just became easier. confidence, or more accurately, comfortability with self, they put people at ease.''

well I am myself (I mean i can't fake anything really) and I think i am confident and so on but i wonder with the 'putting ppl at ease' part.

nice post anyway gareth.

I have had fleeting successes in your romantic relationships, heh, I mean you can be cynical all you want but to be honest it's just boring and damaging. The more you drone on about how you're never going to have a successful relationship, the more the people around you and yourself begin to believe this. I mean don't make yourself that person. On top of everything else it can be a real broken record for those around you.

Also don't allow seeking a relationship to become a part of your personality. I think John's advice is extremely good.

Sure some people are more attractive to men or women, but some people drive fancy cars and have gold teeth, whatever, the point is that no matter how attractive you are to men/women it's no guarantee you'll be attracted to them or the relationship will work.

Ronan, you are wise.

But in the main thread: What about when "being yourself" means being desparate? I mean of course you can smell the frustration and anxiety on my breath (or at least that's what I'm worried about); I am frustrated and anxious, and so forth, and while I try not to make it a big deal, it kinda sorta is, you know? And so now I'm paranoid that this is immediately obvious.

And that's why I'm starting to think that a short-term relationship with someone I'm not at all interested in might be just the thing, right now. You know, to take the edge off. But nothing so despair-inducing as a one-night stand...

I sometimes honestly feel like saying to hell with people, period, but I don't handle loneliness well and I lack the conviction needed. It'd give me some peace of mind, I think, to pretend this profound sense of disconnection was a choice...