simon reynolds reviews 679's grime comp 'run the road' for the observer

so who's got 679's new grime comp - run the road?

ok, i didnt read the first part of this sentence properly.

Also, as with every other musical sub-genre that has sprung up in the last 15 years, how is it that Reynolds seems to be the first journo to attempt to capture the first wind of something and champion, whether it good or bad, or not even a genre to start with???

Personally, I think grime is a more tokenist brand than anything before it. Really!... you can go back to many points in UK hip-hop and brand it "grime" (what of Shut Up & Dance, London Posse, Hijack, Cash Crew, etc..etc).

I like to be ahead of the commerical game and strike early in a genre's birth, but, c'mon, grime? Is that the best "you" can do?

reynolds maybe the first journalist to use brand it "grime" (and i dont think he is) but that doesnt mean he invented the term! genre names have a life outside of the press, a style of music doesnt need to be validated by an artcile to give it official recognition. the term "grime" came from within the scene and people using it now outside the scene (eg us, journos etc) are doing so because the people making the music and involved started off calling it that. i remember when people moved from garage to "grimey garage", and from then on it just got truncated. its not the best "you" could do, because "you" didnt do it.

by the way, i know he doesnt like hip hop

sheer idiocy - read some of the man's work rather than spouting nonsense that you read on the internet. he's actually quite a big fan.

isn't there any irony somewhere as I'm sure Reynolds' is American

no he's not. he's english.

Personally, I think grime is a more tokenist brand than anything before it. Really!... you can go back to many points in UK hip-hop and brand it "grime" (what of Shut Up & Dance, London Posse, Hijack, Cash Crew, etc..etc).

ummm... this is quite mental. it's an important and fertile scene in london and no shut up and dance cannot be labelled as grime. the name has been pretty much accepted and it's a very specific brand of mc-led urban music (not quite hip-hop, not quite garage, not dancehall but with roots in all the above).

hardcore - SUAD/ragga twins -> jungle -> grime

most grime artists claim jungle and UKG as equal parents to the scene/music.

it was listening to Gunshot's 'Apocalypse Bass' that actually got me thinking 'woah this could almost be now' but perhaps i was just hearing what i wanted to hear (i haven't heard THAT much grime after all)

Sure, it might throw up some classics within the next year (as every sub-genre does) but it is hardly the movement that UK journos like to hype up; especially when you still hear the influence that trip hop, 'Ardkore, breakbeat or early drum'n'bass in tracks even today!

Grime is a cast-off to any urban form before it but, ultimately, it will wither on this never-ending, name-brand vine.

Oh yes it does.

Sure, it might throw up some classics within the next year (as every sub-genre does) but it is hardly the movement that UK journos like to hype up

Oh yes it is.

Grime is a cast-off to any urban form before it but, ultimately, it will wither on this never-ending, name-brand vine.

Oh no it won't.

Have you heard the recent Dizzee record? Have you ears?

who gives a shit? stop reading mags and blogs! stop confusing discussion of the music wit hthe music itself!

oh no, its a really short lived genre! that immediately invalidates it! i want it to do, real soon! things that drag on are often (thoughb not always)...a drag! i can fully guarantee (although i have been saying this for a couple of yeasr now) that in 6 months/1 year/3 years time i will be into something else, and although just cos i am into it doesnt signify whether its relevant, what i am saying is dont get so hung up on how long it is going to be around., that isnt a relevant criticism in my mind.

I'm English and never have I pissed my pants as much as reading this junk.

Like UKG and drum and bass before it, a few names from the 'grime' scene (inverted commas because those at the peak of it don't want to claim that as a badge) will go on to more traditional and mainstream friendly things and then the rest with wither away before the next new 'urban' thing comes up.

It's all so tiresome.

Hip-hop changed the world - grime won't even change London.

Apart from the fact that this isn't actually true, why the fuck should it matter whether grime 'changes the world'? Jesus what a hoary old rockist chestnut. Grime is important to the people who make it, the people who listen to it, all these people living it. That's why it's amazing, not whether the creaky old mainstream rock press picks up on it and sends it stratospheric.

Who are these people who love every single thing about grime unreservedly? They don't post here, as far as I can tell. We do have our fair share of irritating devil's advocate types without any semblance of a point , though...

nice neither here nor there pacifist PR there......

if youre talking about dizzee, well thats just lame on his part. he just wants to go hip hop anyway and appeal to the hip hop masses so let him. or maybe he just has a diff view of what genres constitute his music.

"....will go on to more traditional and mainstream friendly things and then the rest with wither away before the next new 'urban' thing comes up."

thats silly. drum n bass DID change the world, or the world's concept of rhythm, you can STILL hear its rhythms in millions of other genres and songs. on outkasts last album, andre3000 was THAT recently trying to do something in a D&B rhythm (it was a shit remake of my favourite things but never mind).

and it doesnt matter if grime does or doesnt change the world, whatever that might entail.

Changed London? Get off the crack, biditch! Other than a tiny part of some way out area of London (that's probably more accurately Essex), it ain't shit. It's no 'sound of the streets'.

Some people will do anything to jump on a fad. Tsk.

i dont like this sort of 'bow down to the big wig establishment' type of thinking. just cos the OMM cover it, why does that make it more important than if B&S, touch, echoes, or RWD cover it? i mean, the mainstream will likely get up on grime then forget about it, just like they always do. just cos theres a lot of hype about it now, theyre all over it, but well see if theyre still into it when the hype dies. jus cos reynolds (no dis to him as a great dance critic at all) is writing about it for a broadsheet, doesnt mean the scene is validated, or rather it doesnt mean grime persons should feel theyre being validated. that type of thinking fucks underground scenes up when they start looking outside for approval.

I don't live in London, I do read the music press, and have promoted artists outside of London, Tinchy. I was just pointing as to what the actual topic this thread was about before it got dragged off line. And all in all, it isn't that much hype. Not as much hype as Tesco trying to get me to buy a fucking snow patrol album every time I turn on TV, or the amount of wanking-over and peddling about bono and his lads releasing another mediocre album. So? The press are getting a little excited about something that *isn't* major label pushed, and is resulting in people getting contracts and getting signed. Why the fuck aren't they allowed to get a bit excited about this, even if it dies in flames????

More crucially, grime has a feeling of desperation that American hip hop has largely lost. Individual rappers may still follow rags-to-riches trajectories, but as a collective enterprise, hip hop has won. It dominates pop culture globally. The music oozes a sense of entitlement, something you can also see in that lordly look of blasé disdain that's de rigueur in rap videos nowadays. In America, rising MCs rhyme about the luxury goods and opulent lifestyle they don't yet have because it's also so much more within reach.

Is Reynolds' saying that "grime" is hungry but "hip-hop" is not? "

yeah, hip hop has lots its hunger. its bloated and fat, with nothing to prove. the south is still incredibly hungry though, just as much as grime artists, possibly more so.

I don't like this hip-hop vs grime trope which seems to be developing. I definitely agree that grime sounds 'hungrier' and more desperate, but this does not necessarily make it superior.

he said that on Popworld as well, but i thought he was just talking about himself hyuck hyuck (seriously tho, hip-hop is still creative and exciting but it's not a kid (80s) or teenager (90s) anymore so freshness lost in that respect sure but it's all grown up now - those are the terms i think of it in)

Re grime vs hip-hop, I suppose the minor backlash to "Stand Up Tall" ("oh no! Dizzee's sold out and gone hip-hop!") was a bit of an alert.

listening to Crunk Juice it really is the vocals which I think make me think like this.

it's taken on the image rather than the sound perhaps. the video is VERY hip-hop. but they're a combined package to some people.

as for crunk being bloated, i dont get how anyone thinks that, crunk is the freshest thing hip hop has thrown up from the US in ages.

xpost - cant believe nas was on channel u!!!

as for this:

"American rappers, once they've made it, can sound like bullies and tyrants when they reel out the same old lyrical scenarios: humiliating haters, discarding women like used condoms."

showtime was very much in that mould. its not like grime doesnt talk about bitches and haters. it does them in abundance. and half the time, it sounds OTT and forced. they could at least do it with some more conviction. much as i like cock back, they sound a bit ridiculous and cartoonish.

"From grime MCs, the endless threats and boasts, the big-pimpin' postures, somehow seem more forgivable. When grime MCs batter rivals real and imaginary, they're really battening down their own self-doubt, chasing away the spectre of failure and anonymity with each verbal blow."

people used to say this about hip hop - that the boasts and brags were to cover up insecurity. i dont know why its more forgivable here. in a way its worse, cos theyre just apeing american MCs, albeit in a sort of slightly 'british' way.

"Sure, the misogyny and gun talk can be hard to stomach, but, though outnumbered 20 to one, the female MCs give as good as their gender usually gets. No Lay, on 'Unorthodox Daughter', promises to 'put you in Bupa' and warns, 'soundboy, I can have your guts for garters/ Turn this place into a lyrical slaughter'."

hip hop always had female MCs to give the guys what they deserved too - salt n pepa, mc lyte, latifah, etc etc. most female mcs now might just be fantasies for men, but they still do stick it to the men most of the time, albeit mainly or only in the sexual arena.

the grime vs hip hop debate is a bit redundant - hip hop still has a lot of good stuff happening. its shot most of its wad, but stuff like the dirty south still makes it exciting. and when theres MCs like Trife from theodore unit still emerging, it proves theres still life in it. nas' new album also shows rappers still have some balls and arent complete parodies. lets not get carried away with grime's alleged superiority over hip hop, its still in its infancy.

it uses one of the oldest hip-hop breaks in the book, fule.

Back in the '80s, hip-hop was faster than it is now.

it uses one of the oldest hip-hop breaks in the book, fule."

are you referring to stand up tall or fix up look sharp?

hip hop was ocassionally faster in the 80s, and there were lots of fast records being made, but it kinda lost that around 1994.

, I can have your guts for garters/ Turn this place into a lyrical slaughter'

this reads like a terrible rhyme! unless it's deliberate

xpost

whoops!

yeah it sounds a bit naff. same as the rhyme 'from lampost to lampost, we run the road'. sounds like a road traffic control announcement. maybe the met will co-opt it for ads.

'and half the time, it sounds OTT and forced. they could at least do it with some more conviction. much as i like cock back, they sound a bit ridiculous and cartoonish.'

er yeah well its cartoonish - what with songs titled like 'pow!' (god I can't actually remember 'cock back', I'm not sure I've heard it grr!). I actually like that (in the two versions I've heard) they don't overuse the 'pow!' shout out tho'. I find the whole 'I'll break your jaw' 'I'll crack your skull' type talk far funnier than 'happy talk' or 'pies'. Would an album full of 'itchy and scratchy' type cartoonish violence with grime-pop beats be too much to ask? huh?

martin make us a comp!

x-posts

I'm momentarily forgetting, what's the song with Crazy Titch and I think JME and Lethal B's "ARGH! LETHAL B's GOT A GUN!" Maybe my favourite grime track of the year (at least on some days), but definitely the best for cartoonish violence.

HE DID! That's what this thread is about!

yeah i love wileys pies, and dizzee saying 'i havent got the foggiest' but when its meant to sound hard or rude, its almost lightweight. maybe the delivery isnt confident enough but i dont hear the smirk you refer to. i dont know - it just sounds, as reynolds says, too quaint. i never really paid it any attention anyway, until the review. and its just a single line, it goes fine in the song.

the line i did have a small prob with was the one in mic fight about (im going from memory here) 'its just london living, money guns, weed cars and women'. that was a bit lame.

72 results found:

-- vicemagazine (vicelan...), October 19th, 2005.

AHAHAHAHA..

he moved away because he saw the way things in this once glorious country were heading. if it wasnt for the erosion of traditional english culture, we might still be able to boast one of its true exponents (mr reynolds, in case you were unsure) right here where he belongs.

i am pretty sure i saw bruza on the 73 in stokey the other week. he seemed to have a sweetboy jheri perm thing going on. it were odd.

Grindie changed everything.
-- Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 31 July 2006 09:51 (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

^^^true

This thread = "Why Dissensus Is Necessary" part 379.
-- Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:50 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

4-5-1

i wonder if nu-look nme will be employing dissensus contributrs.

that would certainly bump its sales.